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Author:  Rager
E-mail:  rage@themachine.com
Date:  7/18/2004 10:25:00 PM
Subject:  sick world
Message:  The boy called Eli attacked the abadis for their negative outlokk on life. I'll let other posters (and perhaps the abadi's themselves) explain why eli is wrong, but I feel that I am qualified (Phd in Jewish history) to comment on one of the very foolish things Eli said...

<Second,You bash the chassidic world. if you knew jewish history you would know that the chassidic movement saved almost all of european jewry, not to mention a vast majority of american judaism. Amongst the Rebbes are some of the biggest tzaddikim who shape and affect Klal Yisrael in ways that you and I can ony imagine.?>>

The facts of Jewish history are clear. The hasidim did not "save" European Jewry, in fact they came close to destroying it, and if we are not careful, they mey yet destroy worldwide Jewry. Their style of strict, superstititious Judaism goes againt the Judaism of the Geonim, and against the Judaism of the Spanish rishonim, and it is gaining in influence every day. Moreover, they brought to Judaism foreign customs (red string, upshirin, bonfires, etc) that have roots in idol worship and paganisn and they introduced a nusach (hasidic sfard) that goes againt the nusach hatefilla of our ancestors (see Rav Moshe's teshuva where he rules that the hasidim had no right to do this.)

I am always puzzled by something. Some groups love to tell us that the Holocoust was "caused" by the reform movement. I think this is most foul, of course, and I reject it wholeheartedly. However, have those who make this argument ever stopped to think that the same foul and rediculous argument they apply to Reform, could easily be applied to hasididm (note: I am not saying the holocaust was anyones fault; I am only saying that the logic foolish people use to blame the holocaust on one group, could be applied to another group, too) Consider:
1 - Both Reform and Hasidism went against the teachings of the Rishonim, and the majority of the Rishonim.
2 - Both Reofrm and Hasidism were condemend and fought by the godol of their time and place (SRH for Reform; the Vilna Gaon for Hasidism)
3 - Both Reform and Hasidism were responses to modernity... one did too much to accept it, the other too much to reject it.
4 - Both Reform and Hasisidm were efforts to make Judaism more palatable for the masses. (Reform for the borgeuose of western europe, hasidism for the peasents of eastern Europe)

Again, I DO NOT think the holocaust was the fault of hasidism, but if you are going to argue that the hoocause was the fault of Reform, you may as well stop and think and realize that everything you don't like about Reform (a group that undoubatlbly weakened Judaism) could apply to hasidut as well.

Anyway, Abadis - keep up the good fight. You are right about hasidism, and you are right about the foolish stringencys that are overtaking us. Alay v'hatzliach!

   
Reply:  I am not that qualified in History (I went to Adelphia - guys, that was a joke - chill out), so I will not comment
CYA

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