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Author:  Mordy
E-mail:  not available
Date:  5/9/2005 7:45:00 AM
Subject:  Chalav Goyim III
Message:  Message: Message: It is kosher and dairy. It is Cholov Stam for those that are machmir. Maybe, that is the source of the confusion.

There is no Chalav Stam. There is Yayin Stam, but the term Chalav Stam is not in Shulchan Aruch. Kosher milk is what is required.

Reply: And?

The point that I am trying to make is that you are reformers of Jewish Law and here is the proof: You invented a new term that does not exist in Halakhic literature. Halav Stam does not appear anywhere in any halakhic writing. You would like to see an halakha that says that "halav stam keshera" or something similar but that is not the halakha. According to the gezera, "halav stam = halav goyim" since it needs direct supervision. Even AA agrees on this (honest guy). I am sorry that there is no Sanhedrin, but ONLY A SANHEDRIN CAN CHANGE THIS. And you have been trying to avoid this issue for a long time.

Reply: I have no idea what you are trying to say. Everyone knows that their is a term Chalav stam that is used by many people, to identify milk in the US. When we used that term, we were answering specific questions, which you simply forgot to quote.
Unless you work for CNN, there needs to be ethics in reporting.

There needs to be ethics in answering questions of people who have no sufficient background to understand the issues involved. When you start using a technical word that simply does not exist in Jewish law (even according to AA), you are misleading people into believing that there is a real case for Halav Goyim, while there is not. I am sorry: Rav Moshe Feinstein was a great rav and he remains an inspiration to many both for his learning and his middot. But there is no Sanhedrin today to change the original language of the gezera, which simply says that any milk that is not directly supervised by an observant Jew during the milking process is not kosher, even if we are certain that it is 100 percent OK. As far as I can tell, Rav Moshe Feinstein is not the Sanhedrin and the FDA is not an observant Jew, simply put. We must still comply with, "'al pi hatorah asher yorukha ve 'al hamishpat asher yomeru lekha, ta'ase." This din torah refers to the Sanhedrin, not to contemporary torah sages in a time when there is no Sanhedrin. Rav Moshe Feinstein was simply writing a Teshuva on his opinion, not making a ruling for all of Klal Yisrael or changing the language of the Gezerah. Please elaborate on the issue of the Sanhedrin.
Reply:  Ok. Let's stop this right here! A qualified Rabbi who really believed there was or is Challav Stam can certainly say so. The term was made up without an Halachic determination. But you must realize that the "Aruch Hashulchan" was adamantly opposed to buying store milk and he considered it "Challav Aku"m." Are we to suggest that he was out of line?!

The term STAM is used by wine and it refers to the wine that is not Kosher, but is not sacrificed to Idols. This is therefore in a middle category. Not too bad, but not good either. People borrowed the term for Milk. You don't need Congressional approval for that.

I love your passion, but chill out buddy, or you'll crash & burn.

Over & Out...

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