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Author:  SW
E-mail:  not available
Date:  1/13/2005 11:02:00 AM
Subject:  tsunami
Message:  "Also could I ask how you know this is punishment."

When God kills out masses of people, what else is it?

Why wouldn't Hashem kill only those that deserve it?

In Yeshiva, the Holocaust was often explained (depended upon the Rebbe's point of view) as either punishment for the Jewish People's assimilation (I still have trouble with that one) or a show that Hashem does not "control" people's actions and that Evildoers have free will (still doesn't explain to me how Hashem could let this happen).

Are you suggesting that underwater platonic shifts wee orchestrated by Hashem to exact punishment on the masses who died or that the seismic activity is like Hitler (it happens and Hashem won't always interfere)?

It intrigues me how you (and I have great respect you), or anyone, can KNOW.
Reply:  "Why wouldn't Hashem kill only those that deserve it?"

Only people that deserve things get them. As a matter of fact, even the ones around them who indirectly get affected also must deserve their portion or it cannot happen.

The only difference between when there is a mass plague and when just one or a few people die is in the concept that once the Angel of Death is given permission to kill in masses, he can do so and include many who in their own right would not deserve this. This works because a person is normally not on the capital punishment list until he does something serious and severe. However, within this system is a periodic situation where mass sins cause a mass punishment and in such a case the ones who are guilty but not enough to warrant it on their own will now be swept into the group punishment.

Does it mean he deserved to die? Yes and no. He deserves to die if & when the group is in bad shape, but on his own he does not.

It is the way the system was set up.

The ones that do not deserve anything because they were Good, will not get anything. But good must include their standing up against the others who were bad, and not just being good and keeping to themselves.

There are times when bad things can happen to a Tzaddik (righteous person) and vice versa, but we all know that this is a complex issue. One explanation is when the Tzaddik does not object to those around him who are sinning. Now he is not innocent. Even though he didn't do anything himself, but his silence sort of gave an approval to their actions. He is then a partner.

Another situation where a Tzaddik can be punished is if he was not so good in a previous Gilgul (cycle). Then God helps him clean away and clear up all his old sins. He himself wants this and ultimately is grateful to God for this help.

Evildoers only can hurt someone with their free will who is deserving of being hurt by another's free will. The Gemara has a story of Rav Chanina Ben Dosah and an "Arod," a dangerous animal that was killing and frightening the city. He went there and the "Arod" bit him, but the Arod died. He took it on his shoulders and paraded it thru town on his shoulders to show, that "the Arod is not the one that kills, but rather it is the sin that kills." The Arod is just the delivery boy.

There is nothing that you can do to another without express permision by God. Look at the Tana"ch and you will see the rules of the world and how God set it up. You are intrigued by how we know these things, but I am intrigued by you. How can you not know these things. If we take away our responsibilities in such scenarios, if we look at these stories and don't get the message, we void God's capabilities to get his message to us. Essentially we are ignoring him. Look in Shoftim. This was a constant accurance and the Navie walks us thru the master plan behind it. Where have you been!

This is something every school child should know, but we shield them from it. I have no idea why.

The Meshech Chachmah predicts the Holocaust in Germany at least 15 years before it began. Is he a prophet? No. He is just looking at the Naviim and at history and seeing a pattern. He says that when we get too comfortable in Exile and we reach a point where Berlin is now our Jerusalem, that's when God brings his wrath on us...

Hitler was just another "blue-collar" employee of the Devil.

Hashkafah (Jewish outlook and viewpoint) cannot be dreamed up, nor can it be learned on the Subway. You need to learn Navie and the quality Books on this.

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